Narrator:Get ready for another episode of supercharged with Jordan Samuel Fleming, your weekly dive into the awesome impact workflow and automation you can have on your business when it’s powered by Podio, Join us each week, as we learn from the top Podio partners in the world as we investigate system integrations and add-ons and hear from real business owners who have implemented Podio into their business. Now, join your host, Jordan, Samuel Fleming’s CEO of game changers for this week’s episode.
Hey everybody and welcome to this episode of supercharged. I’m your host Jordan Samuel Fleming here to talk all about the power of workflow and automation when your business is powered by Podio. Today’s guests to start season two is Larry Goins from Larrygoins.com a fantastic real estate investor, educator and basic all around guru. I can’t wait to hear all about his experience with Podio. Larry, welcome to the podcast. Introduce yourself and your company please. Hey man. First of all, did you say all around girl or guru? Guru. And let me tell you the transcription for the podcast will hit me on that.
I love it. Hi, my name is Larry. Yeah man, I really, really appreciate you having me on. It’s an honor. It’s a privilege. I really appreciate it and I’m just excited to be able to share whatever I can about our experience with, uh, with what we do in our business. We’ve, uh, I’ve been investing for over 33 plus years. I’ve probably bought and sold close to a thousand properties in 12 different States. And you name it, I’ve done it. Wholesaling, retailing lease options, subject to short sales, commercial, residential, multifamily, mobile home parks, you name it. I’ve done it. I’ve written several books about real estate. I used to travel around the country and around the world teaching and training people at expos and conventions. But, uh, I’ve started scaling back and now, I mean you and I spent a lot of time together cause you man, you got our Podio rocking and I love it. And, uh, we’re just, we’ve got a small team here and I’m just in the office buying and selling houses over the phone. And I love it.
So that’s, that’s actually a really good point. I mean, you have done so much. Um, how long have you been using Podio as your main driving agent, uh, you know, for, for the, the current business. How long have you been really sort of focusing your business on Podio?
Wow. Well, we, you know, we’ve tried other CRMs in the past, you know, there’s out of the box CRM and stuff like that, you know, and they’re okay if you’re brand new, you know, for a little while. But we wanted something that we could customize, something that we could tweak and test and change things. And there’s so much you can do with Podio. We’ve actually had over the years, three different Podio systems. You’ve had three. We’ve had three different Podio systems. Our first one, our first one was we kind of created in ourself. I had a guy in my office, uh, I created a job title for him. His job title was relational technologist. He would relate technology to real estate. Right. And, uh, and he created it and he was really good at it, but it was just so, there was so much you had to do to, um, you know, to go from this to the next to the next.
And it wasn’t simple and I couldn’t get anybody to follow it. Then I had another, uh, I had some guys that I know create me one called simple Podio, right? And, and it was mainly for buying and selling HUD houses and foreclosures. But, you know, of course, when the market turns from a lot of foreclosures and you have to go direct to seller, you’ve got to have a CRM that is flexible, that’s interchangeable. You can update it, you can add things to it, and you can tweak it to your own business. And this business is always evolving and changing based on the economy, the market buyers, sellers, and we’ve got to have that. And when I found out what you guys were doing, I’m like, man, I’m latching on and we’ve been working together now for, I don’t know, what, two or three years.
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, I, I certainly, uh, I’ve sort of taken on your system the past year, uh, as a sort of, as my kind of area and it’s, it’s great to watch, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re continuing to evolve it. Um, now let me ask, in terms of like, when you decided to choose Podio originally, right? Um, uh, you know, obviously Podio kind of became a bit of a real estate buzzword for a while and it’s, and it’s still a very strong contender in the real estate market, uh, for, for CRM and management systems. But when you first, uh, you know, when you first started in Podio, like what, what was it at the customization that drew you to it versus some of the other systems? Was that the key thing?
You know what, I think one of the things was the customization. The other thing is Podio is kind of like, a lot of people are confused about Podio. What is Podio? I want to get Podio. Well, I can go to podio.com and get it for a couple of dollars, you know, but you have, I look at Podio like a spreadsheet. You want a spreadsheet to figure the internal rate of return on a property for the next 30 years. You can’t open up Microsoft Excel and do that. You’ve got to create the formulas and that’s what I, that’s the way I look at Podio. You’ve got to have, you know, workspaces, apps, systems, processes and procedures and all that has to be built for you. You had, there are some out of the box type Podio things, but you know, just like the other out of the box things, it’s not, it’s not adjustable.
You can’t tweak it. And every business is different, right? Every business, I don’t care who you are or what you’re doing, everything is a little bit different based on your team. You know, your model, where you get properties and that sort of thing. Your marketing, so you’ve got to have it customizable. Yeah. There are some things that you can plug in, like specific apps or workspaces that are common to a lot of people, but you still need to be able to tweak it. And the other thing I love about it is, you know, I’m no technical guy, right? Uh, I mean I’m a fairly decent user, but I’m no technical guy, but I can go in and make a few tweaks here or there, add fields, change some things and whatnot. And that way I don’t have to bug you with it. Right?
No. As, I mean, there’s no question of the, the customization element is key in terms of like, so when you, when we think about like right now you’re primarily wholesaling, right?
Yeah. Yeah. We’re uh, I believe right now in today’s market you should be stashing cash for the crash. And uh, I mean, we used to do a lot of lease option deals, seller financing deals, but right now we’re wholesaling everything and just getting the money and stashing the cash for when the crash goes.
So you think the crash is coming,
it’s not going to be near as bad as it was in 2007, 2008, 2009. But it is coming. I mean, think about this guys. Trees don’t grow to the sky. Right.
I was actually at a, a real estate, um, sort of, uh, one of those, um, master workshop type, you know, the, the w where everybody gets together and talks about it. I was at one of those a couple a year and a half ago and they, they were sort of indicating the same thing that look, you know, all, all things are pointing towards a downturn. It’s coming and then there’ll be another upturn. But, but you gotta be prepared to change your direction or to know that the easy ride that you had it like, it seems to me like there was an easy ride for real estate between sort of 2010 ish and, and, and, and 20, 19, 18, 19. And it was pretty much fat cash, city, easy ride and, and now it’s turning right.
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. It starts with the higher price properties. They ended up being on the market longer, then they start making price reductions to, uh, to move those properties. And then it goes from the big properties, the luxury properties down, down, down, down. You know, in my model is I love the cheap houses in small town USA. My typical deal is I’m gonna buy it for 20 and wholesale it for 30, buy it for 30 wholesale it for 50. I had for 40 for 60. You know, I, I mean we make 10 to 20, $30,000 a deal, but they’re all cheap houses and we’re getting them at the, and a $30,000 house is pretty much always going to be a $30,000 house. I combined that $30,000 house at 10 grand, but you can’t buy a $300,000 house for 100,000. It’s all relative.
And then when, like I, I’m not a real estate guy. Um, I’ve learned a lot in the last five, four years. But, um, I remember when the 2008, nine, 10 kind of when that crash happened, my folks happened to be living in Florida at that time. And, um, you know, you had people in these sort of communities where they bought their house in 2007 for four or 500,000 and they were basically dropping the keys, locking the door. Like th there were houses in Florida, in the community my folks lived in that people just walked away from. Yeah. Um, and that, and I guess what you’re saying is it’s less likely to happen at the thirty thousand forty thousand dollars level than it is if the 500-600,000 level.
Absolutely. Absolutely. I don’t, I mean, I’ve bought and sold houses around a million dollars, but I can tell you, you know, I love the cheap houses. I love small town USA. I mean, it’s a lot easier to find somebody that’s walking around with 30 40 $50,000 cash that it is somebody that can afford to buy a $400,000 house. Right.
Absolutely. So now bring it back into, in the sort of the, the, the, the structure then of the business in terms of Podio and how that’s developed. I guess when you’re talking wholesale and you’re talking about margins or you’re talking about profits of, you know, between 10 and 30,000 almost wholesale deals, I guess the average, uh, you’re not, you’re not usually talking 70 or 80 on a wholesale deal. Um, you tend to be talking, you know, 10 to 10 to 30. If you’re talking about those sorts of levels, then the Margin or the, the more efficient you can be on the followup and on the process, the then the leaner a tight of ship you can run and the more money you can make. So it’s really critical to have a system that is driving those wholesale deals effectively.
You know, that’s so true. Jordan. Uh, we’ve tried other CRMs, we’ve tried other, uh, telephone systems, whether it be freedom, voice or call rail or call aid or call fire or any of those other call dash, whatever, you know. Uh, but we use Podio and smrtPhone and I love the way everything integrates because at any given day I could be in my car, I could be on vacation, I could pull up and see who made a call, who who sent a text message, who made an offer, who uh, who called back a seller, how quick they called him back, uh, how quick they responded to a text message. And the best part is there’s a history of everything. Nobody can hide in Podio and smrtPhone. Nobody can hide. It’s there, the data’s there, the history’s there. And all you gotta do is pull it up and look at it. I mean, I could see where I had a seller sent me three text messages this morning at four 45 in the morning. True story, right. You know it, you saw him, right?
I did. [inaudible] I was working on your system. Yeah, absolutely. It’s funny. And you mentioned the, the, the customization now. It just, we were actually working on your system this morning. I was reviewing some of the work my team did. Uh, we’re upgrading certain bits of your system right now, bring in some new functionality. And that’s another great thing about Podio in that like, you know, whereas before we were putting in an offer amount on a, on a deal, we’ve just, as I was demonstrating to yourself, um, we, we’ve just built you and now a new offer tracking methodology that’s gonna allow you to better track who’s making offers, what happened with those offers when they’re made. And of course, you know, how we can follow up on offers. And that’s a good example, right, of, of, of continuing your system growth.
Oh, it’s a, it’s a perfect example. It really is. It’s a, it’s just one little thing, one little tweak, you know, I might hit you up or submit a request for, for an update or upgrade or whatever. And you know, man, you guys just jump on it and come up with ideas and things that I hadn’t even thought of. I know what I want the end result to be. But you know, you’ve probably ran through that in the past and know, Oh yeah, yeah, we’ve set that up for a few people. Here’s what we’ve learned about that and here’s some, some of the obstacles that we had to overcome, but we’ve got all that worked out and we’ve tweaked it and simplified it and yeah, we’ll plug it into yours and we’ll customize it for you
now because you’re wholesale. Let’s talk a little bit about buyers and how you managing buyers in your system. Um, w w what are, like, what are your advice? A lot of people who listen to this podcast I know are, are potentially, you know, they may be pretty, uh, they may be pretty experienced in the real estate business or in another sector, but they don’t know Podio very well. So in terms of like how you manage buyers, um, you know, what do you, how do you approach that in Podio, in your system right now?
Sure, sure, sure. Well, the biggest thing that, that, especially new investors are a fear is I don’t have a buyers list. I don’t have a buyers list. What if I get a deal? Right? So we are always, always, always marketing. Every property. We have a marketing model that we do. We put out 25 banner signs and say handyman special worth 50,000 cash prize, 29 nine or whatever it is with their phone number. And so the calls come in, they come in through our smrtPhone number. So automatically they go in Podio, nobody has to do anything. They’re already there. They’re done automagically as I like to call it. Right? So they’re already there. And if they go to our website, we, we sell properties and investorsrehab.com if they go to our website, cause we promote them, we send out emails that go to our website.
If somebody ops in that has, that is not already in our database, they automatically go into Podio and it automatically, whether they called or they opted in or whatever, they automatically get a task set with our dispositions manager or we call her an asset manager. She disposes of the assets. She automatically gets a task and all she does every day is just rundown or task and calls people back. Even on our Facebook ads, we promote our properties all over Facebook with the Facebook local groups like the boss sale, the yard sale, the one man’s junk type groups. We promote all of our properties there. And I have a VA in the Philippines, Jan and what she does, she engages those people in conversation and says, Hey, let me get a little bit of information. I’ll send you, or let me get your, uh, your, uh, contact information.
I’ll send you some more details, I need your phone number and your email address. And then she drops it in Podio, right? She drops it in Podio and then boom, it creates a task for Lorraine and she follows up with those people and it’s just done all automatically. Absolutely. Um, now, and you mentioned smrtPhone and obviously I know smartDialer is another thing. Uh, the either you’ve been, you know, you guys have experienced with, um, in terms of, you know, there are lots of, there are lots of systems out there. Um, and, and of course I’m biased towards smrtPhone, but, but putting a smrtPhone aside for the moment, um, how important is it then, like integrating your phone system, whatever system you choose. And obviously I hope they choose my phone, but regardless whether it’s CallRail or any, any other thing, um, how important is that full integration to Podio to you?
From a phone point of view? Uh, it’s not only important, it’s imperative. Um, so many people try to use this tool, that app the other app, and you’re trying to plug it all together with Globiflow or Zapier or something like that. And, um, it’s, I call it, it’s kind of cobbled together. Right? But, uh, I mean, I mean, I used, I use freedom voice for years, many years, then I used CallRail for a couple of years. And then when I, when I saw what smrtPhone was doing, I’m like, we gotta make this change. Now. A lot of people don’t like change. Right. But I’m like, we gotta make this change because smrtPhone is built to work with Podio. Right. And, um, I mean it sounds like unplugging you guys. You know, it sounds like I’m going to get paid, but you know, I just love it. You know, I do. It’s, it’s so automatic and in fact, you know, I set up my desk right outside my office door here and I’ve got my acquisition guys and they’re on the phone when they get somebody and go through the little script, I can take over the call, I can listen to the call, I can whisper to them, you know, say this, say that, you know, I can barge in, I could transfer the call.
So do you use those functionalities
every single day! Every single day I’d probably make five to seven offers myself on properties and my guys will, will either transfer it right now when they’re learning, I don’t have them transfer because I barge in because I want them to stay on the line and listen to me close it when they’re learning. Right. So it’s kinda like they got to learn the script, then they got to learn what is a good deal. Then they got to learn to analyze a deal. Then they’ve got to learn to, uh, you know, to negotiate and, and handle objections and all that. So at first I barge in and I, and they’re sitting there listening to me close, right? And then after awhile I’m like, we’re wasting too much time. You need to be on the phone while I’m on the phone. So then they’ll transfer it to me and they can get back on the phone and set another lead for me. So by the time I get off of this one, they’ve got another one for me. Right. Hopefully. So that’s kind of the way that works. But there’s so many of those little features about, you know, barging in, I could be sitting at my mountain house and they could transfer a call or, or send me a call or I could barge in on call. Or sometimes I just log in and listen and find out what they’re saying. Right. And then I whisper to them
and, and that’s a really, really interesting point cause I like it. It’s so funny because although I am, you know, although obviously smrtPhone is, is one of my companies, I don’t actually do a lot of phone calls. I like, it’s not my business model, right? Like we don’t sell like we don’t do that. Um, so like, I know how important theoretically the, the being able to monitor the calls that are going on live, listen to them, you know, that ability to be sitting in your mountain house. So being, you know, you’re, you’re sitting, you’re sitting, you can, you can, you can be sitting there in the, in the, in the Florida keys somewhere, uh, or on holiday in, in Venice. And you could be listening in, choosing an hour a day to listen in and watch all the live calls going on, listening to whichever ones you want and take over whisper, barge, et cetera. For those people who don’t know the terminology, whispering is when you actually just talk right to the people on to, so to describe me, the difference between whispering and barging. For people who don’t really know the terminology.
Um, well, first of all, listening is just what it is. I can listen to the call and my team member does not know I’m listening. Neither does the other caller, right? The seller or buyer in this case, so nobody knows I’m listening. Right? And it’s, it’s stealth mode, right? So, or I could whisper if my guy, if I’m teaching my person how to close a deal over the phone, I can whisper. So only my person can hear me. The caller on the other end of the cannot hear. I can say, you know, tell him to give us 1% of your confidence, you know, earn the other 99 or something like that. Right. You know, I can say that. Let’s just give it a try. You know, what are you going to do if you can’t sell and, and, and they’ll say those lines, right? So I can feed them those lines. And then barge is where, when I clicked barge, it’s everybody can hear me. Okay. Uh, I’m basically, it’s like a conference,
including the other party. So the person on the other end of the phone whispering is you training or coaching or feeding things to your guy or, or girl. Um, and then barging is you coming in on that conversation and like you’ve just come in as a third party and now you’re speaking directly to both your person and the other agent. The person on the other hand. Absolutely.
Then the agent, my agent stays on the line, right? So they can listen and learn. It’s a coaching moment. It’s a teaching moment, right. So, and I love it. I don’t care what kind of business you’re in. I mean, I know you guys work a lot with the real estate investor industry, but if you have any kind of organization that has people where you generate leads and you generate sales and you’ve got people on the phone, man, it’s, it’s a must have. It is a must have. I, you know, there, nobody can hide in the woodwork, right? They can’t blend in and they can’t hide everything. There’s a history of everything. If I say, Hey, did you call back that seller we talked to the other day three times, let me pull up the communication history date, the time. And what happened? Did you leave a message? Did you send them a text message that whatever it is, it’s there, the history is there. Nobody can hide or tell you, Oh yeah, I tried. I can’t get those people on the phone. You know, you can’t say.
Absolutely. And another interesting, the two other things I want to just pick up on and this their, their, their phone related. Cause I know a lot of people listening to this, uh, you know, the podcasts are in the real estate or property management, uh, sort of, uh, industries. So the two things I want to pick up on that is number one, the importance then of your call recordings. Um, and those call recordings being so easily available to you in Podio and, and number two, the ability to trigger potential automations off of a live phone call. And I know that’s something we built for your system. So where you can be on a call, click a call disposition and have that automatically do something, uh, in your system. Can you talk a bit about those two things?
Yeah. About the, about the automation. There’s, there’s so much you can do with it. Um, like for example, when a call comes in and I mean, first of all, we have an answering service. Okay. We have an answering service and if we don’t answer the call live, it goes to an answering service. I can immediately, well, I don’t don’t do it anymore, but I’ve got a lead manager when that call comes in and we missed it and the answering service takes it, boom. All she does is listen to it.
And, and if she hears the answering service, you know, trying to drag out the call or they don’t know what they’re saying, I can forward that link to my answering services and say fix this. You know, you guys don’t know what the heck they’re talking about. You, you need to fix this, you know, or if they’re trying to drag it out or maybe the person just called and said, Hey, I spoke with somebody over there, I think his name was Michael and uh, you know, he made me an offer on my house and we decided we wanted to take it. So now she could just set up a task for Michael. You know, ideally they would have called Michael’s number and he would have been notified right away cause we probably have 20 different smrtPhone numbers. We have a number to track anything and everything, you know, buyer lead, Facebook buyer lead, Craigslist, seller lead, direct mail, seller lead, SMS, you know, all kinds of lead. And then every individual person has their own as well. And then you have call flows based on what you want to happen when somebody calls that number, right? So there’s so many different things you can do with it and you can listen to the calls immediately right away. And, and I even saved those calls and put them in a Dropbox folder, a specific calls for training purposes, not only for my students but for my employees as well.
Well, and, and that brings us full circle then. I mean, a critical part of this, uh, you know, whether it’s training or just or, or just making sure nobody can hide, being able to have those call recordings and text message the data, the raw data. This is a text message, you know, the information, this is the voicemail recording dropped into Podio against all your leads and your deal pipelines and everything like that. That just gives you that full history so that you can look at something and be immediately understanding of, of, you know, I can look at, look at something, Hey, we didn’t win that deal. Let me listen to this call. Right.
Yeah. Why critique it and use it as a learning experience to increase your future closing ratio.
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, and just, uh, so, um, I think a lot of people get a bit nervous about Podio when they start because of the fact that if you first open up Podio, there’s nothing there. And then you’ve got to figure out, well, what the hell do I do? Do I buy one of these off the shelf systems? Do I go to the Podio app market and buy one of these, get one of these app packs, you know, and then how do I use it? And you know, all that if you, you know, um, when you, with your experience of getting into Podio, um, you know, I find when I find when working with real estate people, we have two different types of real estate investors. You got serious people and amateur hour. And
I write, I, I’m sorry, but it’s true. Like is this, you know, you got people who are serious about a business and, and, and not, and the people who are serious of business are going to invest in that business to make sure that they have the best tools available. Um, but you also have to be smart about it. So when you first got involved, if you were talking to someone who was just getting involved and forget about Gamechangers, a smrtPhone or anything like that, and they’re thinking about Podio, what would your advice be about, you know, what would your advice be to someone who’s thinking about it? They’re in the real estate market maybe or they’re in a small business, they’re thinking of Podio. What have you learned about getting started?
Um, I think the biggest thing I could probably share here is do what you do best and hire professionals for the rest.
Okay. Uh, I mean, yeah, I went through the whole thing like, man, I couldn’t do this. I’m a pretty good user. I can, I can create these apps and log into globiflow and Zapier and all this. But man, let me tell you something. I could probably, or you could, whoever could have bought 10 or 20 houses in the time, it would take them, you know, take you to set up your own Podio, right? I mean, do you want to be a developer or do you want to be a real estate investor or whatever it is you do do, right? So all I did was I went to the people I thought were the best at what I do and or what I needed in my Podio and, and I’m focusing on my business. Another thing that I see Jordan, that a lot of people do is they try to, well, maybe the way to put it is they try to get it out of the box system and build their business around it. That’s the wrong thing to do. You have a business, you know what you’re going to do, or you know how your business operates. You’ve got to build a system and processes and procedures and automation and flows around your business. So many people do it the other way, Hey, let me go get this new tool and then start using it. No, no, you need automation to, to work around what you do. Does that make sense?
Well, I, I 100% and actually, you know, and I realized I was maybe sounding a bit dismissive of people, which I didn’t mean. Um, but you know, the, the, the truth is I think you’ve nailed it. You’ve got to do you. And unless you know, like God knows if you want to become a Podio developer, uh, you know, fair enough. But the truth of the matter is if you are whatever business model you’re in, you want to make sure you’re focused on Podio being the tool that meets how you work. Not, not, not any other way. And one final little question I’ve got for you is in terms of staff uptake, you know, as you get new people, as you change people, if people come and go as they always do in businesses, um, how has been, how has the experience of onboarding and bringing people into Podio been? Because that’s one area where I see, I see resistance from business owners, um, is it’s such a different tool than just like using outlook and, and, and a spreadsheet. What is your experience and what advice might you have about bringing your people staff into it?
Well, uh, one of the things is there’s always an onboarding process. Okay. I don’t care what you’re doing. If you’re teaching somebody how to use Excel, there’s an onboarding process, right? But, uh, you know, one of the things you guys did, I think it was Sam that created this, a bunch of little videos, they’re short little training videos are straight and to the point, not a lot of fluff. Here’s this app. This is what it does. If you click this, it does this. Here’s what it does behind the scenes. Here’s what you’re going to see. Boom. It’s done in like three minutes, right? So we’ve got those videos that you guys created for us and anytime somebody comes on, we have this specific way that we do it. Okay. Um, we do it. They watch, we do it, they help, they do it, we help. They do it. We watch.
That’s a really interesting, I like that. That’s a, that is a progression that allows them to take ownership, uh, over it. But still be, yeah, that’s a really, that’s a really, that’s a nice way of, uh, of, of putting it down right now. No. And they bloody well should. Um, well, well, listen, Larry, I thank you so much for being on season two, the first episode. Um, you know, I, I love talking to you and I know that your experience in both the real estate, uh, you know, markets, uh, but also your experience in learning how Podio you can work for you is going to be valued. The people out there. Uh, I’m going to make sure I put your contact details, the websites they can reach you at, um, in the podcast description and on the website. So please, I do encourage you to take a look at all of Larry’s sites, um, both from a real estate education point of view and probably even, I think you’ve got to let Larry, you got a Facebook group as well, or a page.
Yeah, yeah. Let, uh, facebook.com/LarryHgoins
Well, I will put that link as well. Um, without question. And thank you very much, uh, for being a guest. Uh, today, uh, for everybody listening, please do give us a review on iTunes or Google play or wherever. It really does help spread the word. Please share the podcast on your social media channels so people can listen in and they can learn more about Podio. Larry, any final thoughts from yourself,
man, just go out there and make it happen. You know, I mean, you’ve got you, you’ve got to have tools, you’ve got to have automation, you need that in your business. And uh, you know, if you’re using Podio then, you know, man, Jordan, I can’t recommend you guys highly, you know, you have been awesome. Everybody on the team is awesome and uh, they just, I mean that just make my life so much simpler and I just really appreciate all that you and your team. It’s hard to build a good team of people who are not only developers, programmers, coders, all that stuff, but who are, are good with people skills and, and, and, and work with people and communicate very well. And I don’t know how you’ve done it, but you’ve done it
well. I appreciate that. Uh, thanks very much. And everybody have a fantastic week.
Narrator:You’ve been listening to a supercharged with Jordan Samuel Fleming. Subscribe today on Itunes, Google play or spotify for your weekly dive into how you can supercharge your business by making it powered by Podio. Be sure to check out our website. www.wearegamechangers.com where you can learn more and arrange a 30 minute call with Jordan to help you understand how Podio supercharges you.