Jonathan Harper
Future Foundations
(photo bombed by Pete Cuff)

Episode Summary

In this episode we speak with Jonathan Harper, CEO of Future Foundations, an independent organisation that has delivered pioneering training programmes to over 10,000 young people between the ages of 8 and 24 since 2004.

Jonathan takes us behind their initial integration of Podio and how it has allowed their team (50 full-time and 150 seasonal) to grow their offering, spread geographically and increase their capability.

This is a great insight into how Podio can be developed and expanded in your organisation.

Show Links:

To see more of the amazing work Future Foundations does, check out their website:

To contact their sister organisation (and Podio Partner) Future Solutions:

To listen to the Podcast with Pete Cuff from Future Solutions:


Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to powered by Podio. Automation is everything. Supercharge your business with Podio. Get ready for another episode of supercharged with Jordan Samuel Flemming , your weekly dive into the awesome impact workflow and automation can have on your business when it’s powered by Podio. Join us each week as we learn from the top Podio partners in the world as we investigate system integrations and add ons and hear from real business owners who have implemented Podio into their business. Now join your host, Jordan, Samuel Fleming , CEO of game changers for this week’s episode.

Jordan: 0:45

Hey everybody, and welcome to this episode of Supercharged! I’m your host Jordan Samuel Fleming , here to talk all about the power of workflow and automation when your business is Powered by Podio. Today’s guest is Jonathan Harper from Future Foundations. Jonathan welcome to the podcast, why don’t you introduce yourself?

Jonathan: 1:00

Hi Jordan. Such a pleasure to be on the show today to talk about Podio and how it’s Supercharged Future Foundations and the work that we do.

Jordan: 1:10

Excellent. So tell us a bit about Future Foundations. What do you guys do?

Jonathan: 1:16

Sure. So F uture Foundations we are a yo uth t raining organization, our mission is to inspire the next generation. And we want young pe ople t o b e l eaders in their lives an d l eaders in s ociety. Um , a nd how we do that is by running youth training programs. What be surprising is the amount of technology you need to get a young person in a room at the right time, the right place with the consent of parents and with the right staff, wi th, with everything that goes behind that. And that’s where Podio has been a big part in t h e l ast five years of or ganization.

Jordan: 1:47

So how did you guys actually start with Podio?

Jonathan: 1:50

So we, we basically our CTO Pete Cuff who sat in on a previous Podcast with you. He found out about a number of different systems and it was, we just used it to track our pipeline and um, and then it sort of slowly the rest of the organization got involved in Podio and then we realize what it can do. And then a few years on it’s powering almost every single system. And I think it was that that one statement just wants the one systems rule at all because we had so many systems , um, the way we using and now we’ve been able to remove those and then realize actually how the systems can enable us to achieve more. Um, and that’s, I suppose, getting the start our journey working in Podio.

Jordan: 2:42

And how many people do you have in your organization working in Podio?

Jonathan: 2:45

So we have 15 full time who are working in Podio. Um, I’m interested in actually a number that is now out geographically dispersed , um, including Poland now Canada. Um, and then we have a separate office up , upper Darby share in Chesterfield , number of our team working from home. And again, I think the fact that we’ve been able to sort of do that has been because of Podio. I , we also have Freelance/seasonal workforce, 150 staff who help us with courses integrating and being put into the right place and position and contracted by P odio.

Jordan: 3:31

Excellent, excellent. So, I mean, since you know, so Podio really has allowed you amongst other things to spread out because of the ability to collaborate, I guess. I mean, what was the key that allowed that spread to happen in terms of Podio?

Jonathan: 3:47

I think it was that thing that we were a team that was all based in one place, one location. And then we introduced Podio and then we had some people working outside the office and then we started to realize that almost everything we do, we always have one or two people dialing in. And then when it’s come where someone said, Oh , could I continue to work with you if I moved to here, we were already a virtual business. And we were able to adapt to that without that being a big change for us. And I making the best cases where we had one of our team workings from near Swindon. And then when she said, Oh, actually due to a change of circumstances we need to move to Canada, we actually said, well, let’s explore that. Um, and , um, and it’s been remarkable to just see actually every meeting we do is online, all the minutes, one line that will capture lines as we go. There’s no duplication and everyone can see the same thing in the same space. So I think it’s , it’s, it’s having those tools and also changing the culture, but it’s not about necessarily being in the same place it’a about having rhythms. So we almost say like every Monday morning, 11 o’clock, the whole team is online together. So that’s what I suppose the , the, having these basic system that everybody’s in, everyone can see each other and everyone still still was part of that family. Um, is what’s given us, I suppose that may enable us to retain that culture , um, whilst being geographically dispersed .

Jordan: 5:15

Yeah, I can, I mean, I , I can , uh , uh , relate to that. I mean, we, we now have a team in Asia team in Europe and a team in North America and you know, people ask me who aren’t familiar, you know, God isn’t that hard to manage. And the truth is no, right? Because every bit of our businesses in Podio. And so we’re all collaborating on everything all the time. It’s, it’s not, it’s not difficult at all. You know, [inaudible] talking to each other in Podio. You’re , you know, mentioning to each other, you’re working on the same stuff together. And , um , you know, the only time it becomes difficult is the time zone overlaps. Don’t always work out in your favor. So you have a limited window. But aside from that, it really is fantastic. So when you first started using Podio, and I think I know a lot of the history about this, but I think it bears, you know, a lot of times what I’ve found from this podcast actually is people tell me , um , well that they’re listening to it or they , they, they’ve come to me because they’ve listened to it and they’re trying to figure out how can Podio be better in my company? Right? How is Podio the right thing? And they’ll, they’ll go, Oh, listen. So, given that you guys have a, you know, you’ve got a mature company, 50 people, 150 people, seasonal staff , um, you’ve developed everything in Podio. Did you start , uh , yourselves? Did you get input from other people? What was that kind of start with Podio like for you? So

Jonathan: 6:37

stall the journey was that our CTO , um , he worked with our it contractor and they got Podio consultant in for a day and they sat with him and they absolutely grilled the consultant about how to set it up in the right way to get those foundations right. And that at box , yes , there’s foundations correct. At the start . Um, Pete was a very, he’s a very good technically thinker. So he’s been building a lot of it himself. So much so t hat w e, he’s now running a sister organization called future solutions. U m, which I won’t say too much about today c ause there’s a s eparate great p odcast with Pete explains the Future Solutions journey. U m, but now we always build systems for ourselves, realized in o ur sector. W e’ve now w ith some of the strongest a nd best systems, and now w e’re actually sharing t he systems with other organizations w ithin o ur sector. U m, so that’s sort of been the, t he journey started small, started with just two or three of us involved in o ne workspace. U m, and we organically a dded to i t. Again, that’s the thing I like is it’s, u m, you don’t n eed to f ill, b uild the whole system and then release. You don’t have to wait a year f or your system to be released. It can be build it t ested, run with it for a w hile, then go actually what else could it do? And then add o f the other areas, add apps as you go. And a lso s ay that my team a re building apps e very day and they’re able to do that. When they w ant t o do something really clever, they also c an, they can then pitch that and get it built by Pete at Future Solutions.

Jordan: 8:27

and like, so I’m interested in when you’re , um, you know, you, you mentioned that you sort of organically grew the system and that’s that I think that’s a really intelligent way of doing it. And , and I think it’s a strength of Podio that you, as you just pointed out, you can start small. Uh, you know, we always, when we, when we do a custom build, we always try and find a phase one that is big enough to be impactful but small enough to not to be an enormous risk or time suck. Right. And there’s a balance of like, you know, it too much and it becomes a big, huge thing in there . You know, they don’t know what they’re going to get and too little and it’s like, well, I gotta what am I even using this for? Um, but so when you , uh, what would you say some of the functionality in the system where you were maybe using other systems, but by bringing it in it’s really improved your ability to execute or collaborate or be efficient?

Jonathan: 9:19

Yeah, I mean the first big system we built was our business about our pipeline , um , getting all our records or CRM . I suppose that’s the question we were saying. So we initially wants to CRM and everybody else actually this do project manager , all these things. But we focused on just getting that pipeline in and then getting that flowed from here . The other thing we did, which I think is really interesting for anybody is if you want to embrace Podio, we had our team, I’ve never met that everybody was in that. Every team meeting was that our policies and procedures, we’re on that and that’s where they sign those off and then we have some fun things or socials and high fives you can high five your team members, team mates, and then that could be shared and team meeting . We’ve had like, I believe underestimated probably a thousand team meetings but now captured and then we’ve got all the stats. Another interesting one is if you want to book a room in our office, have a shared office space. We’ve put room booking there and again, it’s been about a thousand room bookings where things that are just in there , so you know , 24 hours a day I want that space, book it and also collaborate with other organizations to do that. That is that . It’s sort of gone to another level where we thought , all right , can I do all right? And we’ve imported all of our HR , automated a lot of that journey. And that’s where I would say it’s gone to another level because we used to have contracts being posted to us. Now we’re sort of RightSignature and signing and blind reference checking. Oh my God, you know, such a crazy process. Um , do you want to get two references? But now someone wants to work for us and the register, the complete Podio web form that comes in, so don’t say press a couple of buttons and out goes reference requests. And then if they don’t get filled in, Podio witH GLobiFlow is chasing them? And, and then it’s alerting us where we thought a , an issue where we now now need to get sort of on the phone Um, and that’s probably where we, you know, smrtPhone can help. Um , so it’s , it’s sort of humbling when we look back two years when sort of go, what were we doing there ? And since then we’ve actually had to scale up a lot of what we do. So that way we’ve got a hundred odd , you know, seasonal workforce contracting, them, paying them, releasing work and then all the finance from that now goes into the finance work space and we’ve been able to effectively outsource finance. So previously that was in house in our team . We were managing the bookkeeping, you know, office. Now we would have to use a cloud based . Yeah . And they all work within Podio, within our checklists, within our systems, ticking things off. And they basically, for me as a director of Future Foundations I get tasked with says right now we’re ready to sign up for banking. And that comes to me and that I know I can see the whole flow and what they’ve done where they are at , so HR, finance, contracts , um, uh, marketing , um, all of these functions and are sitting within Podio.

Jordan: 12:35

Sure. Wow. So that’s a , and that is a what, what would the timeline be for when you started to where you, like how long have you been using it now?

Jonathan: 12:43

We have been using Podio for over five years. And I suppose a lot of stuff was sort of built in the first two years . And then we’ve just been , um, organically developing since then for business systems point of view. Um, the bit, and I suppose I haven’t said is that that starts to go right . How do we use it for then project management. Then the even bigger thing for us is we’ve now , um, uh , starts to use it actually as part of our product to, to , to the world. So we created a global project competition and with Podio , Ray was part of automate elements of that and then share it with some schools with test policy . We’re about 50 schools in a number of countries and then through our marketing idea references , share it globally. And we ended up with , um, schools in , um , 83 countries , um , taking part last year. So we went from 20 countries, 80 plus countries participate in , communicate with us during our programs , um, online. Um, and that’s a whole new area of our business. Um, and the fact that that we are to support and communicate and track and know what’s going on. Um, globally is just , um, yeah , incredible. And the impact of X will happen . And then that’s giving us suppose the , um, the community now to be able to expose to more, be more efficient and create more impact.

Speaker 4: 14:06

Yeah, I was impressed. I mean , uh , you and I just returned from , uh , Copenhagen where we were in the Citrix , uh, uh, Podio offices and uh , where we had the European, I guess it’s our fifth year or fourth or fifth year doing the , uh , Podio European partner, a meet up and this was your guys’ first time. Um, but you did a little presentation on, on the sort of pre Podio and post Podio impact. And uh , those were really great numbers to see and just just how much, where you have a system like Podio involved and you’ve got global , you know, automations and workflows and centralized , um, you know, collaborative spaces, how much you’re able to , um, grow , uh, in very short amounts of time and manage that without going nuts. Right. Because when I saw those numbers and you just talked about there , you know, 20 countries versus 83 , um, T you know, immediately your mind goes to, Oh Jesus, that must have just destroyed the staff. But I guess with Podio that is a natural growth because your processes is the same.

Speaker 3: 15:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think it’s one of those ones where you go, how do we do this 10 times? And actually when we did it manually, it was actually more hard work than when we actually bought it through, planned it out, and then it’s going , um , like all happy new year message is already written for 2020. You better hope nothing major happens then. [inaudible] the good thing is it’s , it’s a tough like message. It’s lined up there. If something happens before where you go next week . But we also planning out the year, I’m thinking what’s going to come out and when , um, and then thinking, Oh, you know, tap down to our deadlines and those sorts of things. Those are the things that aren’t going to get a change. Um, so those, those are the bits that you can make sure you plan. It just leaves the , it forces you to do the planning , which actually enables your teams to be overwhelmed.

Speaker 4: 16:19

Yeah, absolutely. Um, now in terms of integrations, you know, cause I know, you know, one of the goals of this system was to bring things from other systems into Podio, which of course is important, but there are times when you still do use other systems. If we all do. I mean, I, I like finances . One that, you know, as much as Podio can do everything you want, the truth is HMRC in the UK or the IRS in the U S or wherever the country is. They have specific ways of doing it and to build it yourself versus using a tool like zero or QuickBooks online or what , or that would just be insanity. Um , and so instead what we most of us do is we’ll connect to those party, the third party necessary apps, and then drive kind of automation , uh , between them using Podio. So what , what do you guys connect to or , um, you know, what external bits are you focused on , um, in terms of your Podio system?

Speaker 3: 17:19

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, QuickBooks as the one you mentioned that , that’s one of the main ones that we’re inspecting with for our sort of finance function. Also, one of our clients does use Salesforce, so we actually connect , um , back and forth with, with Salesforce . But like reading the data is probably do that, enables us then to , um, play with it in an automated journey, which we haven’t found that we can do. Um , so that’s , that’s, that’s, that’s been been worth , um, yeah , so I think, I think QuickBooks is the main one that we sort of , um , integrating with outlet dispose a diary invites , you know, it sort of feeds out, feeds out to that, and also pulls in all the emails that come on through. So people might be emailing, you know, global leadership to count, but that’s all. Then being tracked and pulled across into , um, into its Podio. Um, and then we’re sort of integrating different tools like , um , how we do our texting. But then , um, it , we’re actually, we’ve got a provider that’s helping that , but that’s all then [inaudible] into [inaudible] within that solution.

Speaker 4: 18:33

Absolutely. And I mean certainly a email, I’m curious to pick your brains about email cause I’ve , um, I, you know, I’ve a long for years in Podio, I searched for the best way of doing email. I searched and I searched and I searched. And we’ve ultimately come up with a methodology that I am very comfortable with and we installed for loads of people, loads of clients. Um, but, but outlook, outlook is, is sort of my sin word , um, that I hate. Um, but how, so how are you finding , um, cause you know, how are you finding that? Where like is it just a case of tracking in Podio or are you able to do more than just tracking? Um, what , what is your take on email for Podio? So these are big emails. Who as January , and then we also service attracting all within you

Speaker 3: 19:34

where we’ve within this yet from Podio . Then actually the replies will then come through and get trapped and get pulled into Podio. Um , is that , I suppose I do have some emails from clients over here where I haven’t done this yet. So that’s the bit where we do have to sort of more manually all that in currently . I think a lot better ways and we are exploring those accounts , how to do that. Um, I mean other things about culture as well internally or what you want to do is go to , if you want to chat to each other, you want to send each other a message or you want to do it, do it within IDEO . So I always see as , um , all I’ll locked in on sales, everything’s all Johnny . And then that’s sort of, if you’ve got to do out bounds of scale, how’d you have to drive that, manage that for you, the old email. Now when some comes in from an old client [inaudible] sort of pull that in and sort of reiterate it. And then internally is , and we’re saying to people, do you want to message message where you would vote ? Yeah . And I think that’s the shift that you must need to make. And then it’s all in context. And you can be in a sort of check compensation and he’d go, Oh , I just think about this person. Um, shareholder for female could just be quickly added and then it’s all , and then also when I come to check things, like I’ll go and check polio and then I just check my external email . Um, and that’s kinda how my mind works. And um, I don’t have project notifications coming to my email cause it’s like I don’t need to have it twice. I’m just, I go to Podio. I just have a quick lift at by this meant Mike stern . It was done this bit right. Actually these are important key new things that are just coming in on all my email .

Speaker 4: 21:21

Yeah, I mean I think two really interesting points there. Uh , in terms of number one, I 100% agree with you, but the internal email , um, you know, it is pretty much the law in my world that internal emails go away. Um, don’t, don’t see CC on, don’t CC me on emails. Like if you, the only time you should CC me on an email is if you need the other party to see. I’ve been CC’d for some reason. Um, other than that, don’t like the, this is sort of culture in the email environment that’s built up over the years. Will you CC people? Let’s just CC and then everybody’s inbox gets filled with bloody emails and emails and emails. And I think Podio is really great at cutting that down. We don’t do any internal emails now and the rule is don’t only CC if the other person needs to CC it, don’t, don’t do it. So I think that’s really interesting. Um, and I think that’s a really good point about productivity that Podio can bring. Um, and I’ll , I’ll send you the video of how we do a email , uh , integration because a , I don’t think I’ve seen a better way yet, but I’m , I’m willing to see if Pete can get best me at that. And now in terms of getting your staff involved, cause you know, you’ve got a lot of people there , um , seasonal workers as well. Um, have the , what has been the biggest challenges around getting staff engaged with Podio? Um , or new staff trained? Cause when you , you know , dropping a new staff member into a mature system is very different than someone who’s gone on the organic building process with you. What have you found , um, have been the challenges around that?

Speaker 3: 23:00

I think fit the big challenge sometimes now is always realizing that what we now see is kind of simple. Um, uh, we’ve always just done a such a journey that we just get in work . So someone else coming in as you , um, we may probably sometimes I think too many assumptions. Um, I sometimes rescue someone yesterday just go watch the Podio basics video. It’s like three minutes actually watch it. Cause if free minutes , you’ve probably then get it. I think we’re too many people do. Is it just Joanne and go, Oh, how does this work? And they just try and work out for themselves without actually doing the training. And actually there’s a whole of videos back where you, you know, within an hour. I used to be a relatively good user probably . Yeah , I do. I think people need to take that time to kind of even self train and it’s all day ready to go. And then that made sense to better use that . Yeah . So there’s my , um, my thought processes, I suppose we almost need to be, you know, if you , if you miss that trick of just dead people just understand those basics and then it sort of means if you get down the line and go, Oh my God, you don’t know how to do that. Um , that’s that sort of, you know, basic drill. So I think you can fast track people a lot by, you know , you know, one to two hours of simple training. And then one of the things that we’re sort of thinking of doing is almost staring like part of your challenges when you say, right , build it and test it and show me and almost get people to a point where they really are sort of good to go using it . But generally, I think the interesting thing is , uh , people come in now and they just get this part of us. Um, whilst the early days you kind of go to people like, Oh, will they stay on or this cat is this , we’re going to try new system. Does that question by now it’s like this is , this is what we do, how we do it. And then people sort of who newly join us. Like I’m like , girl , this is incredible for small organizations. They would do all these things and to achieve sort of the kind of things we’re achieving, I may get , um, that we wouldn’t be doing that if it hadn’t been for , uh , the systems and the processes that we’re building. Um, so really excited by just a response to from recent recent stuff starting .

Speaker 4: 25:37

Um, I want to pick up on, just, just as we start to close this, I want to pick up on something you said there in terms of, cause I’m curious more than anything else. Um, you know, you mentioned, you know, people start building apps. Um, I, I’m interested in that because I’ll be honest, in our systems we build for clients and even our own system when we’re training people , um, very rarely do people. Of course we are a bit different. Our whole business is building people for people , E Podio for people. So yeah, they gotta learn how to do that. But for our clients where we’re building systems, Podio is the tool they use to run their business and it is not necessary for them to understand usually or, or you how to build. So I’m curious, what is it, it’s the second time you mentioned people quickly building apps in your organization. What are they doing? Like what are they doing that you don’t already have a built in your business system? Um, how is that, how is that working out of curiosity?

Speaker 3: 26:32

Sure. So I suppose they’re not really having to build much. That’s really cloning. Um, and then contextualizing. Um, so we take, basically take the, that we’ve built and then make some slight tweaks to kind of go, right, let’s, let’s rebrand this. I suppose we , we’re now almost looking at how we might do more centrally, kind of build like a , a system and then roll out, I suppose in a bigger way. So I think we might be moving more towards that sort of centralized system of releasing stuff that can be , it’s by this change and that will change everything to suit . I mean we all very much, I suppose a bit of a , we’ve got a big consultancy side to us that we are evolving on the lines work with them. Um , so , um, some of our projects kind of do need a bit more like this, both in how we use Podio. Um, but the broadly is like mega, I mean we , we don’t change it much. It’s Wiki little things like parent consent for um, that’s used for one climb needs to be used for another, it just needs a slight tweak was changing the name , um , in order for it to be used by that different school or that difficult ization . So you know, where I say the building clothing and something that’s already been tested.

Speaker 4: 28:01

Okay. So that, that makes a bit more sense. So these are, these are more what I would class as apps, you know, like a , a registration form. Yeah. It to change, you know, cologne it and make a new registration form for another event is what we’re talking about here. And make tweaks to it and make changes. Okay. Cause I was, I was wondering like what , what is it that these people are doing that they need to keep making these apps? But that makes a lot of sense. And that is, you know, I mean, from a purely , uh, getting to run this off getting, you know, my, I always like to ask what advice you’d have for people thinking about Podio and, and one of the things is, you know, from my point of view, when you’re starting to get to know Podio is the ability to really rapidly build something that fits your process, which is, which is a key thing. But as someone who has gone from a journey of, you know, bringing Podio into a , a business like you have, what , what advice would you have for people who are maybe thinking of Podio and thinking about , uh , you know, is this the right tool for me? Should I be looking at a , a more off the shelf solution, like a Salesforce or , or an Isana that are , are really designed to do one or two things. Um, what advice would you have?

Speaker 3: 29:15

Um , I think it, it ma it might get in , I mean Podio for us has been , um, the best tool to the best of both worlds. So it’s an off the shelf kind of solution and system which sort of backed up and Citrix. And I suppose one of the things that’s um, I haven’t mentioned is, you know, we go through like EU level security procurement exercises and they’re saying what systems or do you have? And then we’re able to set, shared the Citrix kind of white paper on security and that’s actually enabled us to secure smart contracts. So again, massively valuable to kind of have , uh , this level of group buffs and system back up. And I’m tracking sort of going on behind the scenes. Um , we’ve looked at I suppose other other solutions where you use their sales scores . Great, great. The selling tracking sales. But for us, we wanted something that keeps , could whole everything together and enabled us to collaborate. Where has been the right solution for us. I think if you’re project based, you’re doing collaboration. Um , and also do you need to kind of segment and even data in way of the workspace kind of safe fencing really works for us as an organization. We’ve got lots of sensitive data like keeping her over here , um , and keeping the safe guarding over here completely Sephora , um, and then locked down to sort of use it as being able to also make peanuts cloud-based. Um, so my favorite hair has no date on it, so , um , I could just log it out. Polio , no one can access that information. So it was just a number of, I suppose , quite deep reasons as well. That kind of all comes together with Y. um , probably some organizations, let’s say you have a bit of a buy stupid get pirated crowd , um , usual, we’ve spun out a Podio partner . So my CRO does now set up to solutions, solutions, builds protease solutions and works with other sort of Citrix uproot, honest. And yeah, we , we want to have that. Do I have this to go to to make sure we’re getting it right? And then when we really want to kind of trick a new new parts and do products or do elements, we save so much time. Let’s just say to him, how can I do this? [inaudible] showing up on tape and how to use it. And if we can then crack on and I think it’s bad stages phrasing wise to say that it can do anything at the right time , you know , um , you didn’t want it to be a workhorse for you and then work out those that are smart way of doing this and then build that . Um, and almost , um, it’s that kind of agile way of working where it’s , he’s the tap test is a simple way to go. Alright , now we get a scale that adamant up, we’re going to get of hydroponics to help us do that. What can I do ? Pies sits next to me and same sort of floor and office space. Um, but I , I think, yeah, it definitely is like Salesforce though. You wouldn’t build it yourself. Um , we’d do it the cells , but it’s helping you.

Speaker 4: 32:45

Excellent. Well , um, what I’ll do is just the , let’s, let’s , uh, let’s sum up here in terms of uh , how can people find you. Um, how can people find a future solutions, your , your sort of Podio arm. Um, give us a bit of a understanding of that and then I’ll post the links in the podcast description.

Speaker 3: 33:04

Great. So , um, our website speech foundations seem to hide from foundations, credit UK express place to come and find us. We also have our sort of sister sort of websites where you got global social leaders. I’ll just show you this is like, Oh, Greg was a social league is a global competition. So you know, a young person on the school and you’re welcome. Get involved. Thanks Doug . and a , you can still get involved in that . You’ve been inspired by how audio is to , to transform what we do and then do check out installations on . I , um , speak to Pete because kind of the appointment with him and he can still show you around.

Speaker 4: 33:48

Excellent. Well. Thank you, Jonathan. A pleasure to meet you the other day in Copenhagen. Appreciate you coming on the podcast. Uh, I’ll make sure your details and the links get into the podcast description and , uh , I might’ve have , uh , thanks everybody for another great podcast. We’ll see you next episode. Jonathan . Have a fantastic week. Thanks children’s . Been a pleasure.

Speaker 1: 34:10

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